N1MM: "Radio Sent Invalid CAT data", on TWIN setup

[OH6RX]

Hi, i just got my TWIN setup working and running... so i was testing it on Russian DX contest. I faced upon problem after sometime playing... issue disappears and comes again. Have anybody has similar problems

Setup is on remote side
SAMSUNG N900 Air Laptop with N1MM ver V13.9.1
USB RS adapter ATEN UC232A, FTDI chip + original Remoterig cable connected COM1 of RRC
ftdx5000 with latest Firmware connected to COM2 of RRC
RRC versions are V7

I have been using remote setup over 2 years based on other setup, with this computer, USB adapter... without any CAT problem.
Now N1MM is giving "Radio Sent Invalid CAT data" feedback after some time operation. Another feature is that when stopping VFO during this period, N1MM frequency on bandmap and logging window is fading back and further... up and down, and due to this pre-logged station will disappear from feeding field on logging window....

Strange thing is, that if going to N1MM "Configuration" and reconfirming settings, system works fine again sometime... but problem re-occurs again. Sometimes problem is disappearing by itself without reset, restart or re-configuration.

All ideas are welcome

73
J-P

Radio and N1MM has

[dj0qn]

I am not sure how to solve your problem, but I do have a question:

Why do you use an additional USB to Serial converter cable, when the RRC itself does this using USB?
Seems like you are just adding a possible additional point of failure in your setup.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

[W1UE]

J-P

A couple of questions on this:
You have two FTDX5000s, one at the remote site and one at the control site.
The Samsung Air Laptop and the USB adapter are also at the remote site?

Dennis W1UE

[W1UE]

Forgot another question.  Does the Samsung Air Laptop also supply your ethernet line for the Remote Rig unit through a Network Bridge?

[OH6RX]

Dear Mitch, Dennis & Gang,

Yesterday i played with settings little bit... i found that COM1 port RTS/CTS has influence to this feature. When i activated  control signasl, i couldnt get this failure msg anymore... although N1MM bandmap got slower or didnt folllowed remote VFO instantly, freq updated only when VFO jogging was stopped. BUT logging window Freq indication followed without delay. I didnt play many hours, but seems that this has influence on my setup. Now Problem is that i want to use RTS for PTT control.

Question/Comment for Mitch: Your idea is to use RRC USB port to Laptop USB port? I have not try this. Im considering to use this USB to Serial port also for PTT and CW keying. Then i use USB to RS only for CW?

Dennis, yes i have Laptop for qsos logging on Remote control side (at HL1 Seoul Korea) and USB to serial connecting laptop to COM1 RRC for CAT and CW keying controls. My Station locates OH6... there Radio RRC is directly connected to ft5k.

Im doing more testing today after work...

73
J-P, OH6RX, W7BW, HL1ZAU

[W1UE]

J-P
I have made almost 10000 contest QSO split between RTTY, SSB, and CW- now done on a Remote Rig.  I'm using the K3 Twin, but I've configured it differently.

At the remote end, I don't have a computer connected to the radio.  The only radio connection is to the Remote Rig module.  N1MM does not run at the remote site.

At the control end, I have a computer with N1MM running on it.  I use a Winkey to generate CW, and I feed it to the Remote Rig CW input.  The paddle is connected to the paddle input of the Control Remote Rig unit.  All the N1MM configuration is done at the Control site, avoiding the problem that you cited.

I tried to set things up your way, and didn't like the results of using a desktop connection program to operate N1MM.  It works much better this way.

Dennis W1UE

[dj0qn]

Right, just go USB to USB. You need to first:
- Install the newest version of Microbit Setup Manager
- Go to the RRC's serial settings and change "use COM1 as USB" to YES
- Check the Windows Device Manager to see which virtual serial port was assigned to COM1

Like Dennis, I also only do this on the control side, although it shouldn't make any difference
which side this runs at, even both simultaneously (yes, I have tested that and that works). Of course,
you need to make sure that COM1 is set to the appropriate setting (mode-6 or mode-7) on each end.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

[OH6RX]

Guys,

Sorry bad terminology... I dont have pc connected to radio, on radio site i have linear cat connected to com1.

Remote=control site... As i understand remotely controlled station @HL1
Radio= station site with antennad @ OH6

Mode 6 is for COM1!

I will try usb to usb and see how i can solve keying... This reserves extra usb but not a problem

Ps. Seems that this N1MM msg of complaint is somehow related to bandmap scrolling, interrupts, as it is not following

Anyway thanks for your help...

JP

[dj0qn]

You can key one of three ways:

1) Use the COM3 port in Winkeyer emulation mode. Then you just use that port as if you had a
Winkeyer attached.

2) Some software allows one to use CAT for PTT and the internal keyer (for example, TRX-Manager)

3) Use an external local keyer that goes into the control RRC's I/O port, like what Dennis does.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN /  K7DX

[OH6RX]

Just for your information...

I have been using now CAT on COM1 for some time, but similar error message is appearing , but not so frequently and behavior is not bad as before... BUT its still existing.

I faced previous configuration real problem, when i operated CQ WPX SSB contest... for some reason N1MM bandmap & CAT control started "throwing" my radio to other frequencies when i kept pileup... also when jogging with VFO... the CAT frequency on N1MM was following slowly and fading... back and further...

Hard to say, from where to start looking for root cause... Radio, RRC, Laptop or N1MM.... last two i can try to block away by taking another laptop with N1MM for use for while...

[W1UE]

Have you made any adjustments in the radio communications parameters?  The defaults are CAT BPS 4800N82, CAT TOT 10msec. 

I would take a look at the N1MM settings, and the FT5000 settings, to make sure all the settings agree.  I would also try changing the baud rate, and making the CAT TOT a different number.  It could be, when tuning the radio, it isn't updating in time to make the correct radio data for the computer.  You may have to juggle baud rates and polling times to find something that will work with your new setup.  What works with this setup may also be different that what will work with another setup.

I would also update N1MM Logger to version 14.3.1 or better.  In the version 13.9.1, there was a bug where the semi-colon key would stop emulating the INS key, and the single quote key would stop emulating the "TU OH6LI" message.

By the way, I was part of the SE0X M2 as a remote operator- I was the op that worked you on 20M while sitting in my house in Marlborough, Ma, USA!

Dennis W1UE

[OH6RX]

Hi Dennis, thanks for comments

i didnt have enough time yesterday to try another laptop and N1MM.

As running Twin, baud rate is 38400N81 and 10ms... on both radios. Also N1MM which is latest Version 14.3.1.
With Direct USB comms to COM1, failure message comes easiest if Radio "sits" on without operation as well as N1MM... this message is cleaned away by changinng band from Radio. I will keep on testing more...

By the way, should TWIN concept controlling "radio station" radio e.g. filter width by setting "remote/control" end radio width?
How about data settings like baud rate? My experience is NOT.

SE0X, ok, i remember this qso... i was in Asia, Seoul City Center, Rep of Korea.

[W1UE]

L-P
According to the N1MM Radio Set-up window, the correct settings for N1MM are N82.  The default setup window for the FTDX5000 sets it up as N81, but if you read the print below it does state N82.  I would try the N82 settings at both radios.

I'm not sure how the FTDX5000 twin setup works.  With the K3 at my house, if I am connected to the radio at the transmitting site any changes I make in the config menus of the radio is really being made to the radio at the transmitting site.  If I am not connected, any changes I make in the config menus in the K3 at my house  are for the K3 at my house.  Of course, if you're not careful with what you change you may not be able to connect without more work.

Dennis W1UE

[OH6RX]

Hi,

i just want to make update to this matter... that i have not found any solution, although i tried to change to N82 and i also tried to return back to USB-RS232 adapter, but it was even more problematic, as TWIN + ATEN232 caused after some operating time the N1MM go to totally Crazy by jumping it around to different frequencies, bands and modes. This happened on CQ WPX SSB 2014 and recently tried also on Scandinavian Activity Contest 2014 SSB... outcome was same, more problems with USB adapter... so im going to stay on Direct USB CAT link to N1MM.

With Direct USB CAT N1MM to RRC1258, the communication failure message comes "Radio Sent Invalid CAT data", but then the message has to be checked ... i cannot know if its because latency or because long control distance (from HL1 to OH6). I thought for while to find solution, as my Samsung Air N9xxx series laptop power supply creates some noise... too power supply away, i felt that error is coming less... but then after sometime it comes anyway...

All ideas are welcome... i would like to find solution and willing to invest and trial & fail.