WNCE2001 Additional Questions

[wb0yle]

Well..have my control so it works over the local house lan...and picked up a refurb'd WNCE2001 wireless bridge to talk to my 4G hotspot (I know it will suck up bits...but...)...

Anyway...seeming to having problems getting it all to talk.  I have the control unit set for DHCP to pick it up off the WNCE; the WNCE shows up in the status screen of the hotspot, so I know it's registering and such.

The control unit is set to contact my fixed IP address in the proper screen; and since I have IP phone service for the house, I've moved the SIP port up by one to 5061 bidirectionally to ensure that I don't interrupt the home phone service.

But...no good when trying an end-to-end connection.  Get the busy two=tone signal out of the 480 head when I press the on button, and the amber light on the mic jack on the control side is blinking (power light is a steady green, though), and both lights on the LAN connection are lit, as are the three green lights on the WNCE2001.

So...any thoughts?  Am I missing something here?  Any insight will be most certainly appreciated!

tnx es 73 Bryan WB0YLE

[dj0qn]

Bryan,

It isn't clear to me what you are doing....are you trying to connect within the same LAN, or is the problem from the outside? If from the outside, did you test it first within your LAN and then change the SIP address to the external IP number or Dynamic DNS address when you moved it?

I have a checklist of what to follow to make these things work quickly. Drop me a mail at dj0qn (at) darc.de and I will send it to you.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

[wb0yle]

It works fine connected to my house lan (and any hardwire connection); it's just when I connect the control unit to the WNCE that it doesn't (and, I tried hooking up a computer to the wnce to surf just to make sure...it works...).  All the LEDs on the WNCE are green, the ethernet port lights on the control unit are both on, and the power LED on the front is steady.

What I do notice is that I get a SIP error indication on the status screen of the radio end; difference being, when I am connected locally, the SIP in and out is on the same port; when I connect via the wnce, the radio end is trying to talk SIP back on an ephemeral port (in the 12000s...) which would explain the blinking yellow lights on the mic connector on the front of both units.

Looking at the status page on the radio side, it is seeing the 4G address in the 'other party' field on the status page, just that the External SIP In port changes from all being on 5061 here on the wired lan...which would indicate that it tries (the error on the radio side under SIP status is "SIP Error". 

Thinking something is getting transposed in the handshake?

Will ping you directly...thanks for the help.

73 Bryan WB0YLE

[dj0qn]

That is a complex method you are using, through a WLAN bridge and 3G router,
everything would need to be perfect to make that work ok.

Make sure that the bridge has DHCP turned off and the RRC is pulling its IP number off
of the 3G router. If the 3G router has an ethernet port, try connecting directly to it
first. Settings for 3G need to be optimized as well, I can send you some sample settings.
However, it will take some trial and error to make your configuration work.

The other mail will go out now to you.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

[wb0yle]

Yeah, I know it's kind of complex...followed the directions in your great document...basically, it's to enable the RR to talk through the wnce to a mobile hotspot (which is on AT&T) so I can transition to the hardline net to my shack.

so...basically what I have is this:

RR <--cat5-->wnce<--wifi-->4G <-------internet------->wrt54G<---DMZ--->RR===TS480

What I'm seeing is that radio end IS seeing the IP address of the remote end, and accepting/logging the remote 4G IP address on the incoming 5061 port for SIP; what seems to fail is that the RR on the radio side is trying to establish the SIP back on a random non-reserved port, which the control side of the equation doesn't know what to do with or where to route it.  Hence, both units (which I've confirmed by running up and down stairs...) end up with blinking amber lights on the front panel (SIP error indication) because the handshake fails. 

So, I know that the 4G net isn't blocking SIP per se; just the non-deterministic return port is lost somehow in translation.

I'm thinking (and will try, it's easy enough to restore the settings to local working condition...done it many times...hihi) that setting up the RR and WNCE to have fixed IP addresses (which also, btw, don't conflict with my local NAT'd LAN addressing scheme) and allocating the WNCE to a fixed IP segment in my 4G hotspot might work.

Other question, which would make it easier to deal with, since the 4G hotspot allows it, would be is there anyway to define the specific ports that the radio RR would communicate SIP back on?  This way, I could use the port forwarding capabilities in my hotspot to specifically route SIP and the control signals to the WNCE that the control unit is attached to, since the only other use for my hotspot is for my MacBook to get to the network. 

Thanks for bearing with me as I work this out.

73 Bryan WB0YLE

[dj0qn]

Hi Bryan,

It isn't clear from me how you configured the WNCE2001, if really in bridge mode. The problem you are
describing can be caused by "double NAT", so I suspect that is where we should look. I spent an hour on
Skype with an OM in Switzerland last week, only to figure out that was his problem (he used a router in place
of a switch somewhere in his network, so the RRC was using the wrong DHCP server the whole time).

Tell me the following:

4G router:The internal IP address and NAT addresses provided by the router's DHCP server
WNCE2001: ditto (but hopefully the DHCP server is deactivated)
Control RRC: Assuming it is in DHCP mode, what IP number and other stuff is it pulling off the server?

Then we can figure out where the problem may lie.

As for the arbitrary control  ports used by the RRC's; I do not believe there is a way to fix these.
Mike may correct me on this, but these appear to be determined on the fly by the system.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

[wb0yle]

Thanks, Mitch; will get the information this evening and research more closely. 

bryan wb0yle

[wb0yle]

4G router:The internal IP address and NAT addresses provided by the router's DHCP server

>Internal: 192.168.1.1 DHCP from x.x.x.2-x.x.x.99

WNCE2001: ditto (but hopefully the DHCP server is deactivated)

> wireless connection grabs 192.168.1.2 most of the time....inside IIRC, I still have DHCP up, again,
> serving (having an Ah Ha moment here) the 192.168.1.x network...

Control RRC: Assuming it is in DHCP mode, what IP number and other stuff is it pulling off the server?

Grabs the 192.x.x.2 from inside, since the ethernet port is showing a dhcp range of 192.168.1.x network...not in front of me..

Thinking that, all things being equal, that working from the 4G in...I use static IP addressing on the WNCE (with DHCP turned off) above the 4G DHCP assignment range with an 8 bit mask, gateway to the x.x.x.1, set the WNCE ethernet inside to 192.168.2.1 or some such, and the control RRC to a fixed 192.16.2.x/30?

Am I on the right track...

Bryan WB0YLE

[dj0qn]

Sorry, Bryan, I didn't understand what you wrote. Just do me a favor and write only the following numbers:

1) 4G router IP number (I assume this is 192.168.1.1)

2) WNCE2001 assigned IP number through the 4G's router DHCP server
 
3) The control RRC's assigned IP number through the DHCP server (or static if that is the case)

Thanks & 73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

[wb0yle]

Sorry, Bryan, I didn't understand what you wrote. Just do me a favor and write only the following numbers:

1) 4G router IP number (I assume this is 192.168.1.1)

2) WNCE2001 assigned IP number through the 4G's router DHCP server
 
3) The control RRC's assigned IP number through the DHCP server (or static if that is the case)

Thanks & 73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

1. 192.168.1.1
2. 192.168.1.2 (or .3 or .4, depending on whether my Mac and iPad are also connected...)
3. Unknown, thinking it will be x.x.1.2, or ?

[dj0qn]

Go to the RRC's web page and go to the first menu item "info". You will find the IP number
towards the bottom of that listing.Then we shall see what's up.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

[wb0yle]

Go to the RRC's web page and go to the first menu item "info". You will find the IP number
towards the bottom of that listing.Then we shall see what's up.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

Picking up 1.100

Dhcp server on the wnce is on

[wb0yle]

SUCCESS!  After I capsulize my notes...but, suffice it to say, bridge mode on the WNCE, fixed IP on the rrc control unit wiich is consistent with my internal ip address scheme so all I have to do is change profiles for internal LAN withou a DNA and outside via the dns...and it works!  Successfully contacted my bas e rig from the wired LAN in my home, then switched profiles, hooked up to the ridge thru 4G...and again connected.

As I said, will jot down all my notes, and thanks Mitch for clarifying my thought process just by asking the questions you did...

Now, to drag the thing around and play from some other places...

Go to the RRC's web page and go to the first menu item "info". You will find the IP number
towards the bottom of that listing.Then we shall see what's up.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

Picking up 1.100

Dhcp server on the wnce is on

[dj0qn]

Glad you got it working, Bryan. That is the problem I thought that you had the whole time,
but you figured it out in the end.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

[wb0yle]

Glad you got it working, Bryan. That is the problem I thought that you had the whole time,
but you figured it out in the end.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

You know...the more experience you have with IP networks...the more trouble you can get into...  Again, many thanks, Mitch.

OK...what worked for me:

1. Nailed the RRC control box to fixed IP address 192.168.1.250,  netmask 0xffffff00 (255.255.255.0).  This does not conflict with anything in my home wired network, so, nothing has to be changed here whether hooked to the WNCE or my house wiring. Default router set for 192.168.1.1, as well as DNS resolution.  These addresses are consistent with both my home LAN, as well as when using the Netgear dongle.

2. Turned off DHCP on the LAN side of the WNCE (which makes it a bridge...that's not clear from the documentation, at least none that I found...), and fixed it's address to 192.168.1.251 (which I guess, as long as it doesn't conflict with whatever address it gets from the 4G hotspot, is ok to set to anything outside of the hotspot DHCP range), with, again, an 8 bit mask, BUT, the DNS is pointed to the inside of the hotspot (192.168.1.1) as well as secondarily the google DNS (8.8.8. just in case, as well as the default router being the hotspot inside address (192.168.1.1).

3. I let the wireless side of the WNCE grab its IP from the hotspot.  Depending on whether or not my MacBook is on the hotspot, it will grab in the range from x.x.x.2 thru x.x.x.6 normally.  Default router is, again, the hotspot. 

4. I created two profiles: Home, and Remote.  The ONLY difference is that the RRC home profile makes a call to the internal IP address in my LAN for its mate, and the Remote profile calls its mate by a fully qualified domain name (FQDN).  Since the addressing combination is the same on both the hotspot and my home lan (gateway 192.168.1.1, DNS 192.168.1.1/8.8.8.8, netmask 255.255.255.0), this is the only change I had to make between the two profiles to get it to work in either situation.

In this arrangement, the turn-up sequence of the devices is key.  First the hotspot, to let it acquire its connection (15 seconds), then the WNCE (2 minutes), then the RRC control box(the amber, then red, then green light blinks 3 times and goes steady), then push the power button on the 480 control head.  There is a little longer lag on the 4G to handshake than when connected on my net (no kidding) or directly hooked up to the radio box (again, no kidding). 

Additionally, I did hook the WNCE to a simple 4-port ethernet switch, the rrc to that switch as well as my MacBook, and was able to not only surf the web, but operate the radio AND browse the RRC web page (I have a fixed IP on my MacBook, too...).
It should be noted that I have a fixed, by contract, outside IP address from my ISP (I have business class service...pay the extra for not having to have the DHCP headache...or having to deal with dyndns), so that makes it a bit easier...

Hope this helps, and is an aid to others thinking of going down this road.  If anyone has any comments, constructive insights are always welcome.  But...sitting here, in my office, with all the equipment set up (and tastefully disguised so my retentive type A boss doesn't get too nosey...) and listening to my local 40 meter net...so, it works. 

Now...where exactly IS my QTH?   

73 all!
Bryan WB0YLE
Morrisville PA (radio) Bridgewater NJ (control point)