Internet Latency Question

[Serge_VA3SB]

Hello to the group. I recently joined the group and this is my first post.

I am interested in setting up a remote station between my home and my summer cottage. The distance is approximately some 300 kms between the two locations.
I have high speed internet service at home. At my cottage, I have DSL service. I used an internet bases site to determine latency at both locations. At home the latency is approximately 30 ms. At the cottage the latency is just under 200 ms  (average upload speed is approx. .60 MB/s and download speed is approx. 1.3 MB/s). The 200 ms latency seems like quite a long delay and not sure if using remoterig with this latency is feasible. I do not plan to operate voice and my operation is usually CW and digital modes (RTTY/JT-65 and PSK) contesting.

For equipment,  I presently am using a Yaesu FTdx3K at my cottage but plan to purchase and use a TS-480 if there is the possibility that remoterig will work with the internet service at the remote location.

Any views/information and advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you to the group in advance.

Serge
VA3SB

[sm2o]

Hi

To measure latency to a third position is of no value. Ping your remote QTH router direct from your home or the oposit way so you get the correct ping time. I doubt you will get 200ms with fixed lines in both ends it's about what you use to get from Europe to the US.

73 de mike

[Serge_VA3SB]

Thank you Mike. So much to learn! :-)
I am presently at the cottage fort he weekend. I will see if I can ping my home router to see what kind of latency figure I get.

Thanks again.

73

Serge
VA3SB

[Serge_VA3SB]

Hello Mike. I was able to do the ping test (using pingtest.net) and from my remote location to the City in which I live - Mississauga the latency I noted was approximately 30 ms. The reverse ping test (I had my son ping my cottage location) appears to be 35 ms or so. Do I take it that such latency figures should enable me to be able to operate  remotely in both cw and digital effectively using remoterig?

Thanks again for your assistance and advice.

73

Serge
VA3SB
 

[Serge_VA3SB]

Hi Mike. In re-reading the email thread, I realize that perhaps I did not conduct the ping test correctly. You indicate to ping the remote location router or vice versa directly. Not quite sure I know how to do that. Will have to do an internet search to determine how to best do that test. Sorry for the confusion and multiple emails. I just want to be sure that latency is not going to be a problem before investing in the purchase of the remoterig boxes and a new transceiver. :-)

73

Serge

[Serge_VA3SB]

Mike, I've done a couple of google searches and cannot figure out how to ping my remote or home router directly. Can you point me to any available information as to how to do this.
Greatly appreciate your assistance.
thank you very much.

Have a wonderful weekend.

73

Serge
VA3SB

[sm2o]

I guess you do not know the IP of the remote router. Login to your router where you are now and  and set it up to allow ping from WAN, it's probably off by default. In the router you can also see the public IP the router have for the moment. You can also use your PC you search for a "whats my IP" service on the Internet to find out what your public IP is, write it down and then go to the other QTH and from there ping the ip adress you wrote down. Remember that if you do not have fixed ip addresses they may change so this procedure has to be done with not to much latency. Best is of course if you can ask someone at the other QTH to ping you when you still are at the first QTH.

73 de mike

[Serge_VA3SB]

Good day Mike and thank you again for your response.
I will certainly try what you have outlined. I will have my son go to my home QTH while I am still at the cottage and try it that way as well.

Thanks again and have a great weekend.

73

Serge
VA3SB

[VE3VEE]

Hi Serge,

Your current 1.3 mbps down / 600 kbps up is in my opinion quite low. It may work as long as it doesn't drop down too much below that. It would help if you could have the same ISP at both ends, for example if Bell.ca is your ISP at your cottage consider using Bell.ca at home, too.

My ISP at the radio site is a Wifi ISP and my latency is likely worse than that of your DSL. I'm not sure what the actual download and upload speeds are as I haven't visited the radio site in 8 months, but the Wifi ISP advertizes 6 mbps down / 1 mbps up. With my speeds (and latency) it is usable most of the time. Occasionally, when the internet at the radio site is likely experiencing slowdown, it does affect usability especially when sending CW.

When I was setting up my remote QTH, I was aware the slow internet could affect the quality of service, but the internet, in the longer term, would eventually improve. If I were you, I would suggest to think in long term. Even if the internet causes you problems now, a few years down the road it will likely improve.

73 Marvin VE3VEE

[Serge_VA3SB]

Hello Marvin. Thank you for your response.
Indeed my ISP is Bell on both ends :-) In Mississauga I have a very high speed Fibe service while at the cottage about 270 KMs away I have DSL service. Not quite sure how to get an accurate speed indication for my DSL service. Will have to look around the net to see what I can find. 

I would like to try out the Remoterig units for sure. My other is whether to try it out with my FTdx3k and a computer at the cottage or bite the bullet and by a Kenwood TS480 with the remote head. My I ask what you are using as a rig? I assume that it would also be helpful if I was able to shutdown or reboot the equipment at the remote end.

Thanks again in advance Marvin.

Have a great Canada Day evening.

73

Serge
VA3SB

[sm2o]

Your internet speeds is far enough for using Remoterig, but if you use other Internet services at the same time they may disturb the audio stream. To measure the Internet speed there are services like www.speedtest.net available on the Internet

73 de mike

[VE3VEE]

Serge,

I think you are VERY lucky that you are able to use the same ISP on both ends. That I believe should mean your signal should not be slowed down by the "internet" because it will travel within your ISP's own network. Do keep us posted in this thread about the progress of your project. I think you have a good chance of achieving decent quality of service.

I use Rogers as the ISP for my home (control-RRC) and a small local Wireless ISP at my tower site (radio-RRC).

As Mike suggested, when you are at the cottage, you can measure your ping, download speed, and upload speed all at the same time at www.speedtest.net

Do you have a VOIP telephone at the cottage? Have you ever used Skype or any voice communication over the internet from your cottage? That could be an indication of the quality of service you can achieve with RemoteRig + a TCVR.

I'm using TS-480. I don't have experience with using any other TCVR with RemoteRig RRC. My remote station is about 3 hours drive from my home. I can control my rotator, power amplifier, remote power/swr meter, I have a power bar there that has 16 power outlets that can be individually turned on/off, my router there is set up to allow me to reboot it remotely if needed. The whole setup has been more reliable than I expected it be.

73 Marvin VE3VEE

[Serge_VA3SB]

Thank you again for your prompt response Marvin.
I did conduct the ping and speed test last evening and again this morning. I have a ping latency of approximately 40ms and a download speed of 3.5 MB/s and a upload speed of 700 KB/s.

Thank you also for the info on your rig and equipment at the remote site. What kind of power bar are you using. I'd like to look it up on the web. Is it a stand alone unit?  Sounds like that is exactly what I need up here to be able to turn everything on and off remotely.

Appreciate your feedback and assistance. I hope to try it out later on in July when I am finished my business travel.

Have a great day.

73

Serge

[VE3VEE]

Serge,

At first I used Web Power Switch 7 by Digital Loggers, a pretty looking unit, but it failed during the first winter. However, it could have just simply been due to it being exposed to extreme cold outside of the operating temperature range specified by the manufacturer (Operating Temperature -30º to 170ºF, -34º to 77ºC). All of my equipment is inside an outdoor metal electrical enclosure attached to the base of my 30m/100ft tower. The equipment is exposed to temperature variations, but this one has so far been the only hardware failure.

Now I use NP-16 by Synaccess which I bought on eBay (front view, rear view). It has survived this past winter without problems just like all of my other equipment inside the unheated outdoor electrical enclosure, LOL.

73 Marvin VE3VEE

[Serge_VA3SB]

Good morning Marvin.
Thank you for the info on your remote  rig and switching equipment.
I will have a look on ebay to see what is available.
Lots of information to take into consideration :-)

Have a nice weekend.

73
Serge
VA3SB